Comments on: Creativity and Accountability http://www.varpartners.net/?p=1439 Supporting the most important work in the world… yours. Wed, 02 Jun 2010 19:24:36 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Tom Vander Ark http://www.varpartners.net/?p=1439&cpage=1#comment-1793 Tom Vander Ark Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:26:23 +0000 http://www.varpartners.net/?p=1439#comment-1793 Great points, difficult issues. Having spent time in Indian and Chinese schools in the last year, I've noticed far more compliant behavior and much stronger cultural priority for learning. They've taken focus on standardized tests to a bizarre and dangerous extreme and are trying to figure out how to introduce more creativity into a rigid system. We have a different problem of a far more diverse system with kids that are supported/compliant and kids that are neglected/disruptive. I think a more engaging and personalized approach to learning with a richer assessment system helps all kids--on that Zhao and I agree. My main point is, you can't credibly argue against standards/accountability without explaining how low income kids benefit. Great points, difficult issues.
Having spent time in Indian and Chinese schools in the last year, I’ve noticed far more compliant behavior and much stronger cultural priority for learning. They’ve taken focus on standardized tests to a bizarre and dangerous extreme and are trying to figure out how to introduce more creativity into a rigid system.
We have a different problem of a far more diverse system with kids that are supported/compliant and kids that are neglected/disruptive. I think a more engaging and personalized approach to learning with a richer assessment system helps all kids–on that Zhao and I agree.
My main point is, you can’t credibly argue against standards/accountability without explaining how low income kids benefit.

]]> By: corrigandl http://www.varpartners.net/?p=1439&cpage=1#comment-1788 corrigandl Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:03:39 +0000 http://www.varpartners.net/?p=1439#comment-1788 A co-worker of mine introduced me to your blog after I showed him the address from Dr. Zhao at the 2009 WSSDA conference. I agree with most of what you say - bad standards and tests improperly applied is not good for public education, nor is letting the federal government do an end run around local controls by using RttT as a way to promote their view of education and then using those funds for other things while we continue to improperly apply bad standards and tests. You mentioned, though, Dr. Zhao has an anti-standards mantra - and I dont think that is it at all. I think he is for standards, as long as they are applied for all areas of education - not just reading, writing and math, but art and social science and other things as well. As in the "real world", there are many different avenues to succeed, and locking standards down to so few subjects minimizes the value of the others. You also talked about teacher accountability, and I think this is a huge problem with public schools in this state. I think most K-12 teachers started their careers with the desire to be teachers. It's not like they chose this profession because they couldnt make it in another field - they wanted to teach, at least at the beginning. I think trusting teachers is something that has been lost, and I am sorry for it, because I know of teachers who really love to teach, but cant reach their students effectively. I am a father of five children, all of whom are currently going through our public education system in Washington state. Each child strongly dislikes going to school now - not because of unfair teachers, or unfair standards, or because they are lazy and dont want to learn. They dislike it because of behavioral problems of their classmates. When you have children that go out of their way to purposely hurt (either physically or emotionally) themselves and others, it makes for an unsafe learning environment. It breaks concentration, it randomizes efforts, and more and more our teachers are called upon to be at best day care providers and at worst mob control. When asked to stop by a peer, it opens that peer to ridicule and bullying. I know of several high schoolers who kill themselves over advanced placement classes for the sole purpose of getting out of the behavioral situations that exists in other classes. And strangely enough, students in AP classes tend to keep raising the bar year after year. Partly because these children are extrememly motivated, but also because it is a safer learning environment. I challenge anyone who thinks that teachers need to have more accountability placed on them to randomly spend time in classrooms around our state. Let them see what our teachers have to put up with out of their students on a daily basis. I am not talking about those students who struggle with autism or AD/HD or other physcial challenges, but those students who truly have out of control behavioral issues. I hope someday we can stop talking about how to place more controls on the people who love to do their job and start talking about how to help them actually do it. Why can't we talk about a safe learning environment, or more parental inclusion. A co-worker of mine introduced me to your blog after I showed him the address from Dr. Zhao at the 2009 WSSDA conference.

I agree with most of what you say – bad standards and tests improperly applied is not good for public education, nor is letting the federal government do an end run around local controls by using RttT as a way to promote their view of education and then using those funds for other things while we continue to improperly apply bad standards and tests.

You mentioned, though, Dr. Zhao has an anti-standards mantra – and I dont think that is it at all. I think he is for standards, as long as they are applied for all areas of education – not just reading, writing and math, but art and social science and other things as well. As in the “real world”, there are many different avenues to succeed, and locking standards down to so few subjects minimizes the value of the others.

You also talked about teacher accountability, and I think this is a huge problem with public schools in this state. I think most K-12 teachers started their careers with the desire to be teachers. It’s not like they chose this profession because they couldnt make it in another field – they wanted to teach, at least at the beginning. I think trusting teachers is something that has been lost, and I am sorry for it, because I know of teachers who really love to teach, but cant reach their students effectively.

I am a father of five children, all of whom are currently going through our public education system in Washington state. Each child strongly dislikes going to school now – not because of unfair teachers, or unfair standards, or because they are lazy and dont want to learn. They dislike it because of behavioral problems of their classmates.

When you have children that go out of their way to purposely hurt (either physically or emotionally) themselves and others, it makes for an unsafe learning environment. It breaks concentration, it randomizes efforts, and more and more our teachers are called upon to be at best day care providers and at worst mob control. When asked to stop by a peer, it opens that peer to ridicule and bullying. I know of several high schoolers who kill themselves over advanced placement classes for the sole purpose of getting out of the behavioral situations that exists in other classes. And strangely enough, students in AP classes tend to keep raising the bar year after year. Partly because these children are extrememly motivated, but also because it is a safer learning environment.

I challenge anyone who thinks that teachers need to have more accountability placed on them to randomly spend time in classrooms around our state. Let them see what our teachers have to put up with out of their students on a daily basis. I am not talking about those students who struggle with autism or AD/HD or other physcial challenges, but those students who truly have out of control behavioral issues.

I hope someday we can stop talking about how to place more controls on the people who love to do their job and start talking about how to help them actually do it. Why can’t we talk about a safe learning environment, or more parental inclusion.

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